0:00:00.8 Jennifer Grove: Welcome to resource on the go, a podcast from the National Sexual Violence Resource Center on understanding, responding to and preventing sexual abuse and assault. I'm Jennifer Grove, and I'm the prevention Director at NSVRC. On today's episode, I'm joined by Jackie Strohm, prevention and Resource Coordinator at the Pennsylvania Coalition Against Rape and host of PCAR's PA Centered podcast. I'm also joined by Amanda Shaw, multi-media specialist at PCAR and NSVRC, who once upon a time introduced the idea of our organisation's starting podcast and has helped us realise this goal as our audio editor and podcasting extraordinaire. As both PCAR and NSVRC podcasts approach the milestone of one year of recording and sharing episodes, we wanna take you behind the scenes with us to discuss what it takes to launch a podcast and what we've learned through the process. I'm so excited to be here and talk about this with all of you.

[music]

0:01:15.4 JG: Yeah, thanks for joining Jackie and... Hi, Amanda.

0:01:20.6 Amanda Shaw: Hello. It's gonna be weird to edit myself.

[chuckle]

0:01:24.8 JG: Yeah, you're usually the behind the scenes Amanda. So welcome to center stage with us today.

0:01:32.8 AS: Glad to be here.

0:01:35.2 JG: So Jackie, maybe you could start. I know we wanna talk a little bit about what led to the decision to start a podcast, so do you wanna start and talk about your experience with that? 

0:01:46.8 Jackie Strohm: Yeah, sure. So I feel like it was in 2019, we had heard from some of the prevention educators that they were spending a lot of time driving from school to community group, they're spending a lot of time in the car, and it was challenging for them to get to participate in live webinars, and they said, "Hey, what about a podcast?" That would be a great way for us to listen while we were driving. And so we took that idea and decided to launch it, and unfortunately when we did launch it, we were in the middle of a pandemic and... Or really at the beginning of the pandemic, and so we weren't sure if people were going to tune in, but I think as we've seen, and I guess we'll probably talk it about a little bit later, podcasts have been really helpful for folks during this time at home as an alternative way to not be staring at screens like they do most of the day. And Jen, do you wanna share why the NSVRC started one? 

0:02:51.8 JG: Yeah, yeah, I think we had been talking pre-pandemic for a long time, as we do at NSVRC, we have a lot of work groups and we have a lot of conversations about things, which actually tends to be a good thing because we wanna have a really thoughtful way that we're developing a process for these types of things, and so we had actually been doing what we called a podcast for a while. We had been recording conversations, we had some video podcasts we did many years ago that were still really popular, but we had been recording some conversations and putting them up on our YouTube channel, so you could find them on our website, but I couldn't just walk out like I do every day on my 30-minute walk and take my podcast app and download an episode to listen to.

0:03:45.1 JG: And so we talked about, Okay, this is the 21st Century, we need to move ourselves into having actual podcasts that people can just on the go grab and listen to and download. And so I think we also had heard from people that they wanted to hear other people in our line of work talking about specifically sexual violence prevention and what that looked like in different communities, and then with COVID, when we were really launching this, we also have this opportunity to talk with people about how they were adapting their programming due to COVID, and we were hearing from people that things like web conferences and podcasts were really, really important for them to be able to listen to themselves, but also to send out to people, to friends and colleagues, co-workers.

0:04:41.3 JG: And so, yeah, I think we were really talking about it for quite some time and knew that we really wanted to launch a podcast. Amanda, I don't know if you have anything you wanna add to that 'cause you were definitely part of that process from the beginning.

0:04:56.4 JS: Yeah. I think when we started kind of casually talking about doing podcasts, we envisioned a lot of different things, but what we did know was we all really enjoyed listening to podcasts, and we wanted to see if there was a space for us to share our voice and to share other voices in the field and kind of what that could look like, and one of the things that I was really excited about, and we're kind of adapting to get better at is being responsive to current events. I think podcasts are a great place for that, and there's tons of stuff that we wanna talk about all the time that's maybe not right for our other projects and other ways we get information out into the world. So one of the things I wanted to do is provide an easily accessible place where we can join in the conversations where we're not always necessarily there.

0:05:56.9 JG: Yeah, that's a good point. I think there's also been a gap in this type of content on podcasts in a really thoughtful way, and I think we saw that gap and we really wanted to figure out how can we fill this and make it really meaningful and get this really nice succinct content that people could have at a moment's notice, at the click of a button.

0:06:23.1 JS: Yeah, it's so funny when we first started this, anyone that knows me knows I love organising and planning, and Amanda can tell you, I made a whole spreadsheet of... We have to make sure that for when this episode comes out, we've recorded at least two weeks in advance to give her a week to edit and then a week for a review time, and as we've been doing this, that schedule has not necessarily happened. We've even had opportunities where we just get the chance to talk about something with someone and we decide, well, we're gonna bump this other episode for two weeks from now, and so I think what's really cool about this podcast schedule...

0:07:02.6 JS: And sometimes I have to remind myself is like, we created the schedule, we get to decide what comes out when and when we think it's gonna be best for folks to listen to, and I think that we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to make this something and I think what's been really cool is just throughout this time knowing that we're recording this in our houses, we wanted to record it in a studio, things I haven't necessarily gone to plan, but we've still been able to release episodes that I know for me, it's one of my favourite things that I get to do as part of my job, getting to hear from lots of different folks and share with other people all the great work that at least for our podcast that's happening in Pennsylvania.

0:07:49.9 JG: You created a really great segue into the... What we wanted to talk a little bit about what's involved in creating a podcast, but I did just wanna note too, I love what you said about being able to amplify voices in the field and being able to highlight stories. We hear so many stories. You all at the state-wide level and at NSVRC at the national level, we have the privilege of being with a lot of different groups in a lot of different spaces, and sometimes I've had moments where I'm just like, I would love to package what you just said up and be able to give it to other people or send it to other people, or share this with other people, and now we get do that so yeah. What has this involved? It definitely takes a lot of planning, right, Jackie? I think I just initially thought, Okay, well, you just set up the recording, click record and have a conversation. It's a little bit more detailed than that. Do you wanna talk a little bit about the planning process, and I can fill in, but you probably have it down pat now.

0:09:06.6 JS: Sure. I know when we first started this, we didn't really do any planning meetings with our guests on the podcast, we just said, "Hey, are you interested in this?" Here's five questions we might ask you, and then we would record. And it worked out for the first couple, but we started realising that it would be helpful to meet with guests in advance, just so we had an opportunity to make sure we were all on the same page, make sure folks are feeling comfortable. This is different for people to record themselves, it can be scary sometimes. And I think what we really love is we always tell our guests, if you say something you don't wanna say, you can say, Stop, and Amanda will edit it out, which is very different than a live type of training or broadcast or something like that, so I really want people to feel comfortable and make it feel like it's a low-stakes way to get out and share your story.

0:10:06.7 JS: And so, yeah, we do planning meetings that are anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour, and then we give folks time to prep their questions and make sure they feel comfortable with what they're bringing to the table, and then we spend another hour recording, even though most episodes are only about 30 minutes, 'cause when you get started and get set up, like we did this morning, trying to figure out, do our microphones work? Can we hear each other? Are there weird background noises happening? There's a lot of things to think through that I think it took a couple episodes for us to learn best practices.

0:10:44.2 JG: Yeah, that's a good point. I love the collaborative process of the podcast because like you said, yeah, we set up these calls with folks beforehand and we say, Here are some questions we have, or what things do you wanna get across in this the 30 minutes of time that we have together, and so it's really nice and collaborative to be able to put that together and then, yeah, just to have help to relieve some of the anxiety that I think some people have with the recording. And love that... And Amanda, you had provided us, I think from the get-go, here is some guidance, here are some things you wanna remember, and I don't know if you wanna share some of those.

0:11:31.4 AS: Yeah. So I think to kind of combine everything that both of you are saying is... We've been learning along the way. I've never produced a podcast before. It's only part of my job, so I had some idea, but then I've never produced a podcast before. And I've never produced a podcast before in a pandemic with everyone in different places in their houses and sometimes all the way across the country. So I think it's been a learning process for us, and I think we learn a little bit all the time. We kind of had a trouble at the beginning of the pandemic buying everyone microphones because it seemed like the entire world wanted to make a podcast when we were. One of the things we've learned along the way is some tricks in Zoom where you can have each individual person on their own line of audio that you can edit, and that makes editing a whole lot easier if my dog starts barking behind me to edit that out then it's not on anyone else's line. And we've recently learned how poor AirPods audio is, and we've now integrated that into our tips for our guests. It's like, Please don't wear AirPods.

0:12:54.3 AS: Sometimes we've had interviews get out of control. Literally, they've turned into an hour and a half long episodes of really great content, but we don't need three episodes out of what we're talking about, so starting from a transcript, getting that whole conversation, just transcripted and bringing that back and saying, What are the important things to pull out of here and what can we use and what can we leave out? But still make it interesting and make it make sense. We are a non-profit, so we're working with a lower budget than most places, so I'm having our staff recording to a free program called Audacity, we're using our Zoom accounts that we already have, and those kind of things, just those really simple things were kind of difficult to figure out in the beginning.

0:13:54.5 JG: And Amanda, I wanted to point out, you mentioned doing this in at the beginning of the pandemic, where we launched these, and I wanted to make a point that you had worked really hard to get our studio set up in our office, and the sound-proofing, and we had moved to... We had moved the studio to a different space and there was some sound proofing done, and there was a lot of work being put in to setting that up, and then we all just had to work from home, I mean the office was empty for a bit, and I had gone in one day to... I was having some problems with my recording at home, and I went in and it was like, Oh, it's like everything left untouched for months, so if you walk into the studio space... And it made me think when you were saying you had to get microphones for everybody and had to figure out how to do this with everyone in different locations, and that was a curve ball that we were thrown that we were not prepared for, but I think we've done it really well, and like you said, we've had these programs we've been able to use, we were able to get the microphones. I know for me, I was having a... I live in an old house with big windows, and I think one of the first things I recorded, Amanda, you came back to me and said, "Where did you record this?" This is... This sounds like, it's just such a weirdly kind of echoey...

0:15:22.6 AS: I think it was birds, wasn't it, too? 

0:15:23.7 JG: There was birds, you said like, "Oh, there are so many birds in this podcast, were you in the trees when you were doing this? What was going on?" And so we even had to figure out Where can I record, where can we... And that helped us though, to help people when I notice when I'm having that first initial conversation with people about the podcast planning process, I'm able to see where they are, and I can look a lot of times and say, Oh, it looks like you're in an older house you have a door behind you, you're gonna wanna close that door, but it looks like you're near a window, that could be a problem, there might be some sound bouncing off the window, but we're learning all those things. Right, and I had this situation where I was recording with two different people, and it was actually a really good conversation, and I think they were really paying attention to all the tips and strategies we had given them to use for recording, but then when we went back through, I kept hearing this noise and I couldn't figure out what it was, and all of a sudden it hit me.

0:16:34.8 JG: It was dog claws, like their little... What do they call them? Dog nails, yeah. I'm sorry, I'm a cat person, obviously, I call them dog claws, but dog nails just real, real lightly, but you could hear when this dog would go back and forth on a wood or linoleum floor, and it's maybe sort of... Oh, there's another thing to add, if you have a dog roaming around, if you are able to be in a room with a door that you can close that off, that'd be great, so that you don't have that sound interrupting you, but we are learning as we go, but I think we've learned so much in such a short time, but we're always learning our own little tips and tricks that we can then share with the guests that are on our show as well.

0:17:18.7 JS: Yeah, exactly. Things like air conditioners, heaters in the background. I just moved into a new space in my house for my office, and Amanda, I was recording some stuff and she was like, "You're really echoey." And I was like, I gotta get a rug. So I got a rug and hopefully I sound less echoey right now, but it's those little things that really can make a huge difference. And I know we're all working as a team, and so anything that we can be doing to make that editing process easier on Amanda makes this whole process go a lot smoother, and so we're big into prevention, and so if we can prevent some of those things upfront, then we don't have to worry about them later.

0:18:00.7 AS: And I think what's also really important to remember is all podcasts are in this situation right now, everyone's recording remotely and that people have pets and they have varying audio situations and rooms, and I think our audiences are really flexible with what things sound like, and so we should be really flexible. It doesn't have to be perfect, 'cause I think before the pandemic, I had planned around, we'll set up this room, it'll be really nice. I got this equipment and we'll be really comfortable.

0:18:40.0 AS: I bought chairs, it was all very exciting. And then I kind of had to let that vision of what the podcast would look like, and might look like some day again, but kind of let that go and adapt to where everybody is. I mean, even my favourite podcast right now, they'll have people call in and their audio isn't great, and those are podcasts that are downloaded by a ton of people. A lot more than us.

0:19:11.7 JG: Yeah, I think some other stuff around tips that maybe we wanted to share and some lessons learned was if this is something that you're gonna be doing yourself, one of the things that we would caution you on is having... We want you to have not too many guests at one time, it can feel overwhelming, and I think it can be challenging for people when they're listening to recognise who said what, and so we really try and keep it to about three people or less on any given episode. We might make exceptions sometimes depending on what's going on, and I think another thing that we were experimenting with is, if you can't get all of your guests that you want at the same time because of scheduling, we were really nervous about how it would go, but I actually did one where I recorded a second time, a separate session with a second guest, and Amanda was able to edit that in there.

0:20:11.5 JG: And so again, we're learning a lot as we go, but it can be challenging when you have lots of people to know who's gonna talk when, and that's why I think another funny thing I wanted to share is that I've had some people come on and they got all dressed up for it, and I have to remind them, Oh wait, no one's gonna see our videos except for us, right? So that's something I've been telling people upfront, because we still have some folks who aren't as familiar with podcasts, we know that not everybody listens to them, and so they might not realise that, Nope, nobody's gonna see this video, but it's really helpful to record with video because you can give those visual cues to each other of, actually, I wanna say something and raise your hand without having to interrupt. So video on Zoom is your friend, even though... Or however you're recording it even if it's not gonna make it into the final product.

0:21:12.4 JS: Yeah, and I like the idea of thinking through, who do you want on this? Limiting the amount of people and the amount of voices 'cause it does get confusing. I listen to a couple of podcasts pretty regularly, and I was listening to an episode recently where I think there were... There were three people, but two of the people sounded really similar and I couldn't tell who was answering what question or who was talking, and so that was really frustrating to me, and so I know we have these guidelines really that we don't typically wanna include more than three guests at a time, and then when we do that, that planning process comes into play because you wanna make sure like Who's gonna be answering what question... Or if you both wanna answer, making sure that you have that all planned out and that each guest has time to share what they need to share during the recording as well.

0:22:11.9 JG: And I know we talked about... One of the things that I think is really important logistically, is it was really important for us to set up a process for payment for guests. We absolutely respect and value people's expertise and skills, and also the time that they put into prepping for this and recording and there's some after things that happen, and so we at NSVRC, we actually added a line item into our budget for podcast guests so that we can make sure that we have the money to reimburse people, and again, even if it's two people from one agency, well, then we're gonna reimburse both those people, and so I think that was really important for us to not expect that people... And there are a lot of people who are like, "Oh no, I just wanna share my story. You don't need to pay me," but we really wanna set a precedent for that, that we wanna compensate people for their time and talent and expertise.

0:23:18.5 JS: Yeah, we've tried to do the same thing. There are some people who are like, Nope, I'm just happy to have the publicity about it or get my voice out there, but we, in some internal meetings are trying to do a better job of making sure that that line item is in multiple budgets, because depending on what the topic of our podcast is about, we can only pay from certain grants, so our goal with year two of this podcast is to make sure that we are always offering funding to folks to compensate them for their time and expertise.

0:23:52.5 JG: And it takes a lot of people to do this. I do also wanna mention that it's not just the person interviewing, we have multiple staff who... I think when we came into this, we had a few staff who sort of stepped up and said, I'm comfortable hosting, interviewing, but as we've done it, I feel like more staff have listened and said, Oh, I can do this, right? And so we've had... I know for NSVRC we've had more staff willing and able to help us do interviews and host podcast episodes, but we also have this all this behind the scene, like all the work that Amanda does, we have our communications team and our graphic design folks that do the graphics and we have people that review. And that's another thing, having other staff listen and review and provide some really good feedback for you, and we have people helping with sometimes with the scheduling and getting guests on board and making sure that we get invoices that involves our fiscal department. So really, I feel like almost every... At least at NSVRC, it feels like almost every department is involved in some way in our podcasting work.

0:25:14.1 JS: Yeah, absolutely. It's truly a collaborative process. I can even just think about an episode that we're planning for right now, it wasn't somebody that I had a connection with, but one of my colleagues did, and so they reached out. We figured out scheduling. My colleague is actually gonna meet with us during the planning meeting because it's not my area of expertise to make sure that we're getting the best kinds of questions and content we can be talking about, and then when we go to record, it will just be the two of us, but I'm very grateful for all of the staff who help us with this process because it was a little bit different at PCAR, we also envisioned that multiple people would be hosting, and then nobody felt like they really had the time or capacity or felt like they wanted to host, and so that's kind of how I ended up with that role, but I agree with you as more of our staff listen, they're like, Hey, we have an idea for a topic and they want to be included, and it just maybe not in that hosting capacity.

0:26:16.3 JS: So if any of you are thinking about starting this yourselves, that's something that you'll want to consider, of is it gonna be a consistent host each time or is there gonna be multiple people involved in that process and either way, making sure that you have that process really spelled out so that anybody can be part of it, we have intro scripts that are read, I have a standard format of how the episodes, the transcripts are looked at, so that our graphics team know exactly what needs to go in the shared graphic for social media and all of these things. So it really... It isn't something I think you can just jump into, you're gonna need to take some time and plan out who's involved and what that process will look like.

0:27:01.0 AS: And I think one thing I really wanted to touch on was, people are really nervous, and I think we've already kind of touched on that a little bit, but even our own staff expressed being very nervous, I can hear it on the recordings afterwards and not just guests from outside, it's people in our organisation. And we kind of have to remind them like, you are the expert on the thing you're talking about today, It's fine to be nervous, to take a break and pause and start over if you're not saying exactly what you wanna say. So I think that would just be my general recommendation across the board is, you're already good at this, you're already good at talking about the thing you like to talk about.

0:27:44.1 JG: And we're all human. I love that you said that. And I made a huge faux pas, mistake on my first... I think it was the first recording I did by myself, I completely forgot to make sure that there were separate audio tracks and then I paused, so this wonderful researcher who was so patient and kind answered the first question just beautifully, and I thought it sounded great, but I kind of looked up and saw, Oh no, I don't think this is... Something's not working right. So I asked her to pause and when I went and played it back, nothing had recorded, and I felt so embarrassed and so I said, I'm so sorry. We've already spent so much time on this day, you've answered this... We have to start over. And she said, Oh, good, because I really didn't the way I answered that anyway, and so we just got a good laugh out of it, and then I figured out what I needed to do and it all worked out, but recognising the humanness in all of... You know, we are all human, we make mistakes, we... And we know our stuff, we just... It takes a while to get there sometimes with talking, asking questions, making sure all the technology is working, but we figure it out and we get there eventually. Yeah.

0:29:12.8 JS: Yeah, I think we really try and frame these as a conversation, and so I think there are pros and cons to the taking time to plan out what you wanna say because just so everyone knows, we had a planning meeting about this meeting, and at the end we joked and we were like, Why didn't we just record this because we said all the things that we had wanted to say anyways, and so there are pros and cons to that around if your guest is more conversational or if there's someone who's like, I typed up all my notes and now I'm going to read them off. I wouldn't suggest that, but also you gotta work with who you're working with, right, sometimes the person that you really wanna hear from, that's how they're most comfortable and so I still think my favourite part of this is when we do mess up and we say Stop, Amanda can tell you a lot of us apologise to future Amanda when she's gonna be recording or to when she's editing and that I think always gives us a giggle.

0:30:14.1 AS: It makes me giggle in the future. I usually edit podcasts first thing in the morning and I start work pretty early, I start work at 7:30, and just kind of like listening to you guys just kinda chat and learn new stuff that early is one of my favourite ways to start my day really.

0:30:32.8 JG: And we also have people usually, I'll say, Oh, the person editing this... Her name is Amanda, so you might hear me say, Oh, hold on Amanda, back that up, or, erase that, or start over. And so I've had people on episodes that I've re-recorded say they're in the middle of saying something like, Oh, I'm sorry, Amanda, I'm gonna start that over, and they don't even know who Amanda is, but we all know who Amanda is when we're recording these podcasts.

0:31:02.3 JS: Yeah, we're really grateful for Amanda for editing all of us, and it's really hard for us to listen back to our own voices, which is why Amanda, we're so glad she made an exception for this episode to be on the other side of things, but I know for myself, I do not wanna listen back to these episodes, and so I'm so grateful for Amanda for editing it, and then for our colleagues to listen to it and be like, Yeah, I caught this mistake, or, Hey, what do you think about going back and re-recording this piece and I did try and listen to them at the beginning but it was taking up a lot more time, and then I think I was getting very self-critical of myself, which makes sense, people don't like to hear their own voices often, and so I just wanted to give a shout out and thanks to the folks that I know will be reviewing this episode to say thanks for doing that for us.

0:32:00.5 AS: And that will be me.

[laughter]

0:32:03.3 JG: No, it is true. We do have these layers of editing and layers of review that I think are really necessary too, and that's something you'll wanna build in time for, especially because I believe all of our podcasts so far have been federally grant-funded in some way, and so we have a layer of review, some is a little bit more intense than others, but yeah, I get to listen to all of them as sort of one of the final reviewers for our CDC-funded podcast and I actually really love that. Yeah, it's not great listening back to yourself, but I get to listen to a lot of other people besides myself, but it's nice because I get to have that preview of what's coming out and then I get really excited about it and talk to my friends and colleagues like, Oh, just wait till this one episode comes out, it's really great, but I do like to have... I do like to be involved in that process as well. So we've learned a lot from the process. Amanda, I don't know about you and Jackie, I was blown away, I think I was talking with Sally [0:33:11.9] ____ our evaluation coordinator yesterday mentioned that we had said we thought we'd have what? Maybe a thousand downloads, I think that's what we projected. What are we up to now, Amanda? 

0:33:23.8 AS: So we are recording this in early April, not entirely remembering right now when these episodes will come out, but we should reach 10,000 downloads by the end of April for the NSVRC podcast, and I think the PCAR podcast is hovering around 3000 downloads itself. And I imagine we will meet that before this episode comes out, so... Yeah, it has been really surprising. I think we wanted it to be successful obviously, but sometimes things don't work, experiments don't work out, but I think this is something that we're seeing that people really respond well to and are excited about.

0:34:05.3 JS: Yeah, it's been pretty cool to be in spaces and someone's like, Hey, I listen to that podcast that you all did on so-and so, and it's just nice to know that the folks are listening and that they're finding it useful and valuable, and so I feel like we had suspected that this was a need that people had, and we really are feeling like, Yeah, this is a great way to provide training and support and resources in a different way than we traditionally do.

0:34:33.6 JG: Yeah, we'll be on calls with people and they'll mention a podcast episode they listened to. We had a series that got a lot of great feedback, it was our sex ed series that we did for NSVRC, and we had a lot of different people reaching out about that, and sometimes just the subject matter, you'll find that our podcast gets linked to in someone's e-newsletter or a major organisation is putting it on their website as a resource, and so it makes its way around, and I think we definitely... The need has been confirmed, we have been able to fill a spot that was open there for content.

0:35:18.4 JS: We were recording an episode yesterday, and somebody who I had had on the podcast previously was coming on as an additional guest, and I didn't know about it at first, they said they'd bring a volunteer for this program, and it turned out to be someone that I knew, and she shared with me that someone from London reached out to her and was like, "Hey, I found you on Spotify about a podcast that you did, and I'm writing a screen play, and I'd love to talk to you more to learn about male survivors and what... " It was just fascinating. And she was like, "How did someone in London find us?" And so, at least for PCAR, we were really focused on just making sure that our local rape crisis centers had this information and knowing that folks in other countries and states and places far away have found this and are using it, is cooler than I think we ever could have imagined.

0:36:19.7 JG: I love that story, Jackie. That's awesome. Yeah, it's kind of funny, we were talking in the beginning about, Okay, well, we got... Yeah, we have our spreadsheets. We line up guests. It's like, okay, well, who are we gonna talk to? And who are we gonna interview, and what's the topic and... Now, we have people reaching out to us saying I listen to your podcast, I would love to be a guest and talk about my area of expertise or this particular program that I developed, so I feel like now we're getting people who have heard the podcast and they're excited to possibly be able to be a guest on our show, and so it's really fun too. So the tables have turned a bit.

0:36:57.5 JS: Something else I wanted to share is that at PCAR, we've been doing a mini-series called History you should know, and I was really excited about this and thought, Oh, this will be so much easier than doing all this planning and meeting with guests, and then I found out that scripting takes a lot, lot, lot more time, especially if you're researching someone who's very important and cool, and you wanna make sure you're getting the right information, so we, I think, wanna experiment a little bit more between the scripted episodes and these conversational episodes, but I just wanted to share with folks that sometimes you think it's not gonna be so challenging and ends up being more so than you thought, so...

0:37:48.0 JG: We have a lot of different... People have a lot of different styles. Our staff have a lot of different styles. I know I tend to... I like to be conversational, but I tend to go off on a tangent and I get distracted, and so for me, even if it's an interview that I'm doing, I like to have at least a loose script that I'm working from, and so that's important to me, but we have staff who have questions or an out, but really just kind of wing it, and I don't wanna say in it, they're not preparing or not, but they're able to have more of just off the top of their head kind of conversation. And so there are a lot of different styles, and like you said, Jackie, we're doing... When you're doing the history, you should know things like that, where there is a lot of research and a lot of information that you're sharing. And it's not an interview style podcast that takes a lot of time.

0:38:48.8 JS: So I feel like as a way to prop this up, I think we've been highlighting it and talking about it, but just really wanting to emphasize again how grateful we are for our guests and the opportunity to learn and uplift so many different people... I know Jen and I both spend a lot of time on prevention, that's our jobs, and so sometimes being able to talk to other people about different things is very, very cool, and I would encourage anyone who's starting this to really think outside the box of podcasts can be whatever you want them to be. And you can talk to whoever you want to just take some of that planning and figuring out who's gonna do what, but we really, really love getting to do this, and I can't wait to keep making more...

0:39:48.2 JG: I agree, I don't have much more to add to that, just to echo that and say, yeah, we are thrilled with everyone we've been able to talk to so far, and we're really looking forward to some of our upcoming episodes and what the future holds for our podcast.

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0:40:21.3 JG: Thanks for listening to this episode of resource on the go. For more resources and information about preventing sexual assault visit our website at www.nsvrc.org. You can also get in touch with us by emailing resources@nsvrc.org.